Quick question

Hey, what replaced the 45 ACP Black Talons? Was it Golden Sabre?

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36 Responses to Quick question

  1. Mike S. says:


    Golden Saber, HST or any of the current generation of bonded hollow points are better than the Talon, though.

    • Wirecutter says:

      Yeah, I can’t remember if I’m running Gold Dots or Golden Sabres right at the moment and I’m too fucking lazy to get up and look.

      • Mike S. says:

        I can’t remember, but one of the two: Gold Dot or Golden Saber is an older style cup and core and the other is a skived bonded core bullet that does what the old Talon did.

        I think it was the Gold Dot that’s the better one…

  2. madminute says:


  3. Red Spur says:

    Black Talon is now replaced by Ranger-T. :)

  4. Snap says:

    Thought the SXT replaced the Black Talon, but I may well be wrong.

  5. Cutman says:

    Winchester Ranger T-SERIES. Same bullet without the black coating. Federal HST are almost the same.

  6. drjim says:

    I remember reading that the SXT replaced the Talon.

    They got the name because the “new” bullets were the Same eXact Thing as the old ones.

  7. Sig-P says:

    Ranger T

  8. Ray says:

    I shoot a SAA (.45LC) with 255Gr. XTP’s @ 1000fps. It’ll knock hell out of a feral hog. My 1911 won’t feed HP worth a damn.

    • rightwingterrorist says:

      That’s a very common problem with 1911’s. Mine (Springfield Arms, ca. mid ’70’s production) will eat up 230 grain ball ammo, absolutely no problem. Anything else, at best 2-3 rounds before jamming, it just refuses to feed correctly. Another common problems is jamming caused by improper handling. Years ago I was shooting with a buddy of mine and my 1911 kept jamming when he shot it but not me. I couldn’t figure it out for about an hour until I focused on how he was holding it. Finally it occurred to me, and one sentence solved the dilemma.
      “Quit holding that pistol like a limp wristed faggot, and see what happens.”

      • Wirecutter says:

        I had the same thing happen to me – I was gripping the fucking gun just enough to keep it under control and it started jamming. Couldn’t figure it out until somebody pointed it out to me. The bad part was, I wasn’t a novice, I probably had 5000 rounds through the gun. Just got lax and overconfident.

    • singlestack says:

      The reason a lot of 1911s won’t feed HP is because the standard throat on a 1911 barrel is narrow and designed for hardball. If you want to shoot anything else you need to have the throat opened up to a “target” or “semiwadcutter” throat. This is a much wider throat that prevents the edge of the hollow cavity catching on the end of the chamber. Done properly this enables the gun to feed almost anything.
      It isn’t a very expensive mod and makes the gun more reliable and useful.

  9. Sconsin Rick says:

    It is the Winchester SXT, in the Ranger line of cop ammo. its an improved talon. personally I use and carry Gold Dots in my .357 sig and the wife carries gold dots in her 9mm.

  10. B says:

    SXT is the bullet that is identical to the Black Talon, only not coated.


    • singlestack says:

      SXT is a different bullet. It has 8 petals, where the Black Talon has 6, and they’re shaped differently. Also, the cavity is larger in the Talon and the ogive is different.
      I still have some of both and just compared them side-by-side.

    • Wielsucker says:

      That’s what I’ve heard but can’t swear to.

  11. Steve says:

    230 grain federal HST

  12. 230g RNL cast. In NZ, you own a .45- you load your own, unless you are a millionare

  13. singlestack says:

    The SXT replaced Black Talons. Rangers replaced SXTs. Black Talons, SXTs and Rangers are Winchester. Golden Sabres (my current carry ammo) are Remington. Golden Sabres came out long after Black Talons were a historical footnote.
    Not long after Black Talons hit the market I bought a box. The first round through my 1911 blew the lugs off the barrel. I called Winchester and they said send us the case, the rest of the ammo, and the barrel. I did, and about a week later I got a letter saying that they didn’t find anything wrong with the ammo, but some more ammo was on its way to me. A few days later I got 4 boxes of Black Talons and a new barrel in the mail. I throated and fitted the barrel and still use it.
    I used the ammo to hunt deer with my Marlin Camp Carbine.
    When I ran out of BTs (by then they were Unobtainium) I switched to SXTs because everything I read said they’re equivalent or an improvement over BTs.
    They’re not.
    I’ve shot a lot of deer with my Camp Carbine using just about every brand of premium self defense ammo on the market and nothing matches Black Talons. Nothing.

    • singlestack says:

      As an addendum to my comment…
      Due to the negative publicity from the smear by Jane Pauley and Daniel Patrick Moynihan after the 1993 San Francisco law office shooting Winchester pulled Black Talon from the market and replaced it with SXT using a different bullet design. Winchester later introduced the Ranger line of ammo using the SXT bullet, and then “improved” the Ranger line by replacing the SXT bullet with the Talon bullet without the black Lubaloy coating and called it Ranger-T.
      I considered using Ranger-T for hunting with my Camp Carbine but my handloads are even better than Black Talons so I stayed with them.

  14. Andy says:

    45 Black Talon was replaced by 10mm Ranger SXT.

  15. Mark says:

    All of the above, and Sabers now come with a bonded core like the Talon. The bonded core are a little more expensive and harder to find at times but they work just as good.

  16. wrong says:

    Hey Look! A squirrel!

  17. Spencer W says:

    Winchester Ranger .45 ACP 230 Grain +P JHP RA45TP

    The +P gives you better/more reliable expansion and deeper penetration with this bullet.

  18. KM says:

    Do you want to stay in Winchester’s line (RangerT), use Federal (HST) or Remmy (Golden Sabre)?

    If’n you want Winchester buy – RA45T, RA45B (bonded) or RA45TP (+P).

  19. Kent says:

    This is a little off topic, but a few years ago when Hornady introduced it’s Zombie Max ammo, I got two boxes of the .45 ACP. I was thinking about keeping one for collecting and shooting the other. After I shot the first box, I shot the second one up as fast as I could. I found out that the Zombie Max ammo was the same as Hornady’s regular self defense ammo, but because the tip was colored green, they were selling it about 3 dollars cheaper. I eventually bought 30 boxes of the Zombie Max (in .45 ACP, .44 mag, .223 Rem, and one in 12 ga.). I didn’t have any misfires, ftf’s, or any problem with the ammo. I ran all of my.45 ACP through two Glocks (M21 and 30), a RIA 1911, two Rugers (a P90 and P345), and a Taurus PT145. And no failures, tight groups, and in my opinion it was a solid defense round. Then the price went back up and now I use a lot of SB hardball, mainly for plinking, I do use some Winchester Ranger ammo (I think it is the -T stuff), but if I can ever find any of the Zombie Max, I am going to buy as much as I possibly can.

  20. Greg says:

    Winchester is now selling a bullet w a black coating calling it SXZ they have a training load w flat nose and a “personal protection” load that is a JHP. The come in 9mm, 40 & 45.

  21. RTinWeimar says:

    Squirrel !!!!! Where-where ???!!!!!

  22. DAN III says:

    WTF you need some Black Claws or Silver Sabres or whatever specialty bullshit bullets in 45 ACP for ? All you need is those good ol’ 230 grain, round nose .45 Automatic Colt Pistol slugs. If they were good enough for Alvin C. York they should more than suffice for you Kenny.

    BTW….when the hell you going to get a freakin’ haircut ?

    230 grain, RN slugs and a high & tight. That’s all you need Kenny.

    • Ian Restil says:

      And lederhosen. And the little alpine hat, to cover the high part when he wants to go incognito.

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